The Hoya editors must have some insight into the Vatican and the hierarchy that's unavailable to us lesser souls. How else could they characterize Georgetown's relationship with the Church as "strained?" The Pope has never said a negative word about Georgetown. Nor has the Vatican. Cardinal McCarrick, who was Archbishop of Washington from 2001 -2006 and a frequent visitor to the Hilltop, never had anything but positive, encouraging things to say about Georgetown during his tenure. His successor, Archbishop Weurl, has been a less frequent visitor to campus, but has never had anything negative to say about the University either. So where's the strain with "the Church"? With rightist Catholic groups? Having strained relations with them is a sign of health, intelligence and healthy Catholicism. Their New Testament ancestors were almost always at odds with Jesus. The Hoya editors would do well to actually listen to what the Pope says before reacting with such an edge to what they imagine he might say and before accepting as fact what is actually right wing fiction.

"Faithful Alum"

Get real, please. If you think Georgetown is on solid footing with the establishment of the Catholic Church, you are in make-believe land. Are there elements of the school that are touted? Certainly - we have credibility as a politically connected and relevant elite university. However, I ... I'm actually nearly (note - nearly) at a loss of words over your ability to hoist such a mendacious thesis - that Georgetown is comfortably within the good graces of the Catholic Church? That we're only out of favor with the... with some make-believe right-wing Catholic cabal???

Ha! If only that were true - I'd be glad for that to be true. In spite of the strong heritage of the Jesuits, Georgetown's standing as a 'Catholic' University has been on the decline for decades, even as we've risen in academic prominence. In short: we screwed up. We couldn't manage all the balls we were juggling. And it shows. A pyrrhic victory from an institution of shortcutters and compromisers. As a counterexample, I think we'll all know what I'd sight: Notre Dame. Academics may be of slightly less standing ... for now (and I think this is largely attributable to its interior of the nation location - if it were on the Coast, it would probably have surpassed Gtown by now) but it has managed to simultaneously retain an authentic Catholic character whilst nurturing its status as a burgeoning international elite university. In other words - they figured out how to 'juggle' where Georgetown deftly chucked aside one of its balls. (pun intended?)

This is to say nothing of the faulty institutional ties of Georgetown to Catholicism - investigate the actual power-structure and independence arrangements of Georgetown in relation to the local dioscese to say nothing of the actual Holy See - we're essentially unlike any other Catholic University in the degree of attenuation if not utter severance of contact. The Jesuits - who have my respect, admiration, and blessings, to be clear - are certainly a gravitational force in the sphere of the nonsecular - a glue that holds together what religious character we yet have. But, really, wake up: unlike true Catholic Universities, e.g. BC, Notre Dame, Georgetown is basically fully independent. Short of something insane like revoking the charter of the Jesuit Order, the school could essentially continue unaffected by a Vatican mandate or censure. Do you take this as a good thing? Do I take it as a good thing? Perhaps. But it's certainly not a Catholic thing. Part of being a Catholic University is being a part of the robust institutional arrangement of the World Church, which has both its ups and downs.

You, my friend, are living a perverse religious fantasy if you really view Georgetown as having normalized relations with the Church. We have been passed over for major speeches and events by central Catholic figures. Those that we do manage to get on campus have had historically embarassing(!) experiences interacting with an unctious student population. The school is already in a state of quasi-severed ties between itself and the Church. The moral climate on campus is about as unCatholic as you could imagine. I'm not sure what you regard as 'healthy Catholicism' but last time I checked, rampant sex and drug and alcohol abuse on a weekly basis, alongside unhampeered materialism and consumerism whilst espousing amoral world views is NOT healthy Catholicism.

But please, give me whatever you are smoking. It must be some good stuff.

Signed,

Realistic Alum

"Realistic Alum,"

You said, "If you think Georgetown is on solid footing with the establishment of the Catholic Church, you are in make-believe land... However, I ... I'm actually nearly (note - nearly) at a loss of words over your ability to hoist such a mendacious thesis - that Georgetown is comfortably within the good graces of the Catholic Church?"

I answer... For starters, you hardly appear to be anywhere near a loss of words. But more to the point, who is this "establishment?" Do you mean the Roman Curia? Do you mean the Bishops and priests? Moreover, when you say "good graces of the Catholic Church," surely you are referring to the whole body of Christ on earth, i.e. all baptized Catholics, correct? It seems unlikely that most Catholics are adequately acquainted with the University to have much of an opinion at all, especially when you consider that Americans constitute only 6% of the global Catholic population.

You said, "In spite of the strong heritage of the Jesuits, Georgetown's standing as a 'Catholic' University has been on the decline for decades, even as we've risen in academic prominence. In short: we screwed up. We couldn't manage all the balls we were juggling. And it shows. A pyrrhic victory from an institution of shortcutters and compromisers."

I answer... Despite your impassioned impugning, you conspicuously omit even a single example of these ostensible affronts to the faith. Would you be so kind as to point to a few such concrete counts, upon which you are basing your unqualified indictment?

You said, "As a counterexample, I think we'll all know what I'd sight: Notre Dame.

I answer... For starters, I presume you meant "cite," not "sight." But, again, you point to Notre Dame without providing any sort of delineation as to the differences between our institutions that would cause you to esteem them as so obvious and unimpeachable a paragon of the successful integration of faith and higher education (an attempt at which you seem to think Georgetown has failed spectacularly).

You said, "This is to say nothing of the faulty institutional ties of Georgetown to Catholicism - investigate the actual power-structure and independence arrangements of Georgetown in relation to the local dioscese to say nothing of the actual Holy See - we're essentially unlike any other Catholic University in the degree of attenuation if not utter severance of contact."

I answer... to what are you pointing? You parade vacuous charges with no accompanying explanation of what they might mean. Faulty institutional ties? What does that even mean? That we have a lay Board of Trustees? So does Notre Dame. And Boston College. To what are you pointing?

You said, "But, really, wake up: unlike true Catholic Universities, e.g. BC, Notre Dame, Georgetown is basically fully independent. Short of something insane like revoking the charter of the Jesuit Order, the school could essentially continue unaffected by a Vatican mandate or censure."

I answer... You seem not to understand modern day University systems. The ONLY school in the entire country that would be bound according to your suggestion is the official Pontifical University in the United States... Catholic U. Georgetown is no different from Notre Dame, Boston College, or any other independent, religiously-affiliated school in that respect. You are creating a fictitious dichotomy.

You said, "You, my friend, are living a perverse religious fantasy if you really view Georgetown as having normalized relations with the Church."

I answer... Vitriolic language aside, you offer precisely zero justification for your intense disdain for Georgetown's current institutional arrangement. What are "normalized relations?" What do they entail? Could you spell that out? Also, again, please specify whom you mean by, "the Church."

You said, "The moral climate on campus is about as unCatholic as you could imagine."

I answer... That's a pretty amazing statement. How do you explain the fact that there are 7 Sunday Masses, each full to capacity? That the number of graduating seniors who enter Teach for America, Jesuit Volunteer Corps, and related service fields, is among the highest in the country? That the number of students who organize and carry out service on campus is staggering? That the Knights of Columbus boasts over 160 members?

You said, "I'm not sure what you regard as 'healthy Catholicism' but last time I checked, rampant sex and drug and alcohol abuse on a weekly basis, alongside unhampeered materialism and consumerism whilst espousing amoral world views is NOT healthy Catholicism."

I answer... You're incredibly self-satisfied, so I can only assume you've got reliable data to bolster your assertions. Please share it. What percentage of Georgetown students fornicate on a weekly basis? Could you line that up next to the percentages at Boston College, Catholic U, and Santa Clara, just for comparison? How many are characterized by [sic.] "unhampeered materialism?" What are the criteria thereof? Again, could you please compare these stats to those of other Catholic institutions of higher ed?

In sum, you traffic in hyperbole and asininity, bombastically condemning an institution about which you are clearly prohibitively ignorant. Your vacuous asseverations obtrusively omit even a single datum in support thereof. And you rather unsuccessfully disguise your gossamer arguments with ad hominem impugning of your interlocutor.

I think there's a bit of a straw man argument being created by this editorial, and other things the Hoya has had to say about the Pope. For starters, the Benedict XVI who exists in reality is a much different person from the lazy "rottweiler" caricature the media has been tossing our way for the past few years. No, he is not a closet liberal, however, American political distinctions such as conservative/liberal really have no bearing on describing the "political" reality of the Vatican. On a lot of things, such as the Iraq War, environmental issues/climate change, the plight of the global poor, etc. Benedict were he to be an American politician would be way "left" of most Democrats. While on many other issues--the ones the media likes to trot out--such as abortion, homosexuality, etc. Benedict would be right in line with most Republicans.

But making these comparisons is really absurd. The bottom line is that Benedict has been for most of his life a scholar and a university professor. His colleagues during the formative years of his career in Germany were mostly left-wing secularists, while Benedict was a pretty liberal Catholic generally seen teaching sans roman collar. In his writings we don't witness him as an ideologue like JPII was or as a showman, but a wise and humble teacher. I don't think Benedict's not coming to Georgetown should be seen as a snub, so much as practical reality--the Holy Father only has so much time, has a packed schedule, and is in the city where he has "his" own Pontificial University already. To say its a snub or that the Vatican has some seething dislike of Georgetown, assumes for Georgetown an importance in the Catholic world--where Vatican functionaries constantly talk about the perceived iniquities of this place behind all of our backs. I really doubt they or the Pope does.

The title of this article itself is quite revealing. The idea that the pope could learn something from Georgetown students is rather arrogant. We, as mostly undergraduates, are still undergoing the process of intellectual and spiritual maturation. Why should the Holy Father, a highly respected intellectual who has also been chosen through the Holy Spirit to be the Servant of Servants of God and the Successor of the chief of the Apostles, why should he listen to us? He has a great deal more wisdom than any one of us. In addition it is odd that Georgetown and its students, many of whom (but not all) come from privileged backgrounds, and all of whom are young, feel that they can teach the Holy Father about inequality and human suffering. I think the pope who lived through Nazi Germany and deserted his post in the army of the Third Reich and later was a POW in war ravaged Europe, knows more about this than the editors of the Hoya. Besides, a reading of Pope Benedict's two encyclicals on Love and Hope quickly reveal that our Holy Father is far from the uncaring out-of-touch figure the Hoya editors make him out to be. You refer to Georgetown's "progressive Catholic environment" but I would argue that perhaps the most vibrant Catholic community at Georgetown is far from progressive, and more traditional in nature. In any event the editors of the Hoya have revealed that "progressive Catholicism," realy means that the roles are reversed and that the old listen to the young and the shepherd must follow the sheep, many of whom, (like myself, and if I dare say, also the editors of the Hoya) are far from fully formed intellectually and spiritually.

anonymous says it best--The Hoya's board seems to have little or no acquaintance with the reality of Pope Benedict/Cardinal Ratzinger's background as a serious scholar and pastor, instead buying into the secular media's portrayal of him as some sort of right-wing political enforcer. Somehow I doubt that the Pope needs Georgetown students to inform him that there is suffering in the world, or would be enormously shocked to learn that there are homeless people in DC.
As for changing fundamental church teaching in order to bring things in "line with the social realities of the modern day"--well, maybe that Church's truly radical insight is that some of those realities aren't working out so well for many of those involved.

The fact of the matter is that Georgetown is not a Catholic University dedicated to teaching the truth of the Church or establishing a moral climate for the good of the human soul. It is an elite eastern school that everyone knows is secular--a Jesuit no longer runs the school.

Conservative Catholics--from alums like Pat Buchanan to Antonin Scalia--want nothing to do with the school. Higher ups in the Vatican do not even consider Georgetown a Catholic school--it has abandoned that heritage to become a third rate Harvard on the Potomac.

Why would Pope Benedict want to visit a University that does nothing to teach the truth of his Church? I am glad he dissed Georgetown--and glad that almost all the traditional Catholics I know who graduated from Georgetown plan on sending their children elsewhere. We will put our efforts in a school and faculty that value Catholic education and values--not continue to mock them.

Georgetown should be sued for false advertising--it is not a Catholic university. Sad, but true.

While I agree with your core idea, I must warn the Editorial Board of The Hoya of the arrogant nature that they have come off sounding like.

It appears that you are making the argument that even though Georgetown is more liberal than its counterpart, Catholic U. it is more prestigious in many ways. While this very well might be true, Catholic U.'s conservative nature is not the reason why Pope Benedict XVI chose it. The reasoning behind his choice is that Catholic University is the ONLY papally chartered university in the entire country. It would only make sense for him to go there. A simple Google search would show that.

His visit to DC was a short one, and he could not have made many stops while here, the man is 81 years old! He is not the young JPII that jam-packed his schedule when appearing on US soil. So if he were to visit one university would it not make sense to visit the one that he essentially runs?

It is not based on prestige, if it were; surely Georgetown may have been the first choice.

Also, have any of you ever driven to that campus? The "route" you gave is completely incorrect. Yes the pope would see the "disturbing dichotomy of American struggle" but he would not take that route- at all.

While I normally admire and respect the opinion of The Hoya, I fear that you have failed to do your research on this one.

"it has abandoned that [Catholic] heritage to become a third rate Harvard on the Potomac."

Perhaps I am being incredibly presumptuous, but is it any coincidence that Georgetown's academic standing and reputation has increased in direct proportion to the "liberalization" of the university.

truthteller, if you and other conservative alumni would rather not send you children to Georgetown, choosing Notre Dame or other more "truly" Catholic schools instead, the loss is most likely your own (and your children's). They will miss out on a fine education, and a place where real exchange of ideas can occur.